Ed, You don’t think Jordan had games where he did nothing but shoot?  As you know, he had plenty of them.  I think he still holds the record for most shots taken in a game.  Though I might be wrong about that.  Kobe is not a one dimensional player at all.  He can play D very well and he is fully capable of scoring less and finding the open guy like Jordan did.  And I don’t think Kobe is that far behind Jordan.  Jordan is still the best ever in most people’s eyes but that may change to Kobe or LeBron some day.

Funkhouser - 05 November 2007 03:58 PM

Ed, You don’t think Jordan had games where he did nothing but shoot?  As you know, he had plenty of them.  I think he still holds the record for most shots taken in a game.  Though I might be wrong about that.  Kobe is not a one dimensional player at all.  He can play D very well and he is fully capable of scoring less and finding the open guy like Jordan did.  And I don’t think Kobe is that far behind Jordan.  Jordan is still the best ever in most people’s eyes but that may change to Kobe or LeBron some day.

All great scorers have games when they shoot a lot.  Its inevitable.  For the most part though, Jordan worked his shots with in the system.  The system with Kobe is give me the ball and get out of the way.  Jordan gave up big shots to other people who were open.  Jordan also made other players better then what they are.  Kobe has never, and I mean NEVER done anything like that.  I dont think anyone has accused Kobe of being a one dimentional player?  He is hte best all around talent in the league.  To bad he cant get out of his way and do what is best for the team.  What makes you think that he would be willing to distrubute the ball and incorperate others when he has never shown that he is capable of doing it before? 

And yes, at some point someone is going to eclipse Jordan as the best of all time, I dont think it will be Kobe or LeBron.  And can anyone tell me why when we talk about hte best player in the league, Tim Duncan gets no love.  He is my vote for the best player in basketball.  he just isnt flashy as the others, but all he does is win championships.  Hes got 4 right now?

IlliniEd - 05 November 2007 04:06 PM

Funkhouser - 05 November 2007 03:58 PM

Ed, You don’t think Jordan had games where he did nothing but shoot?  As you know, he had plenty of them.  I think he still holds the record for most shots taken in a game.  Though I might be wrong about that.  Kobe is not a one dimensional player at all.  He can play D very well and he is fully capable of scoring less and finding the open guy like Jordan did.  And I don’t think Kobe is that far behind Jordan.  Jordan is still the best ever in most people’s eyes but that may change to Kobe or LeBron some day.

All great scorers have games when they shoot a lot.  Its inevitable.  For the most part though, Jordan worked his shots with in the system.  The system with Kobe is give me the ball and get out of the way.  Jordan gave up big shots to other people who were open.  Jordan also made other players better then what they are.  Kobe has never, and I mean NEVER done anything like that.  I dont think anyone has accused Kobe of being a one dimentional player?  He is hte best all around talent in the league.  To bad he cant get out of his way and do what is best for the team.  What makes you think that he would be willing to distrubute the ball and incorperate others when he has never shown that he is capable of doing it before? 

And yes, at some point someone is going to eclipse Jordan as the best of all time, I dont think it will be Kobe or LeBron.  And can anyone tell me why when we talk about hte best player in the league, Tim Duncan gets no love.  He is my vote for the best player in basketball.  he just isnt flashy as the others, but all he does is win championships.  Hes got 4 right now?

I don’t know Kobe’s stats by heart.  Far from it.  But I think it is safe to assume he has had many games with a high number of assists.  Guys like Kobe and Jordan often shoot/score a lot when they feel they have to. 

I agree with you largely about Duncan.  An all time great.  Though I think his team’s championship last year was tainted.  Phoenix got screwed.

The law is the law and they broke the law and everyone is assuming that Pheonix would have won.  They had a chance with everyone there to win the game in game 7 but didnt.  Maybe, just maybe the Spurs would have won both those games.  it is possible. 

With regards to Kobe, there is nothing that can be said about him that will make me change my mind or opinion on him.  He could cure cancer for all I care and I still think that he is an egomaniacal piss ant that is a cancer to a team and I would much rather not have on my team.

I disagree on the Phoenix thing with you but I don’t care to debate it.  And I think I have said all I can or want to about Kobe.  But I’ll ask what will you do if Kobe does go to the Bulls.  Would you stop rooting for them?

angelus - 05 November 2007 03:09 PM

Funkhouser - 03 November 2007 01:42 PM

I would suggest you take a look at Mike Downey’s column yesterday.  He was absolutely spot on.  It simply amazes me that some people don’t want one of the greatest players ever and think this little engine that could team is on its way to a championship.  It isn’t.  With Kobe there would be some chances for one.  I wouldn’t give up everything for him but I would give up a lot.

There’s a difference between thinking Kobe Bryant is an a-- and not wanting to sell your soul for a couple of basketball wins and not acknowledging that the guy isn’t a good player.  I think a lot of us wouldn’t want to root for Kobe Bryant because he is such an a--, regardless of what he can do with a basketball.  I’d rather lose with a bunch of guys I can root for and admire (excluding Noah, of course) than win with a guy I can’t respect and can’t stand.

Angelus, I love all of the guys here at JTJ (and not in that wrong kinda way), so please don’t take this the wrong way, but…

What a crock of sh*t.  We f*cking cheered for Dennis Rodman (who we previously thought was a piece of crap)...and why???  Cause that son of a bitch could rebound his ass off, and made that team unstoppable on defense.  He could guard anyone in your front court regardless of size, and we forgave all of his sh*t because it meant three more rings! 

This notion that

I’d rather lose with a bunch of guys I can root for and admire

Kobe and Jordan are damn near freakin identical...do you remember his gambling habits, his public (and referee organized) adultery, his degrading of teammates, his “NEVER” playing for anyone but Phil (until he played for Doug Collins and the Wizards)…

We have an above average team playing very below the rim average basketball (currently 0-3 against Eastern Conference teams with less talent), and that’s what they’ll be.  On some level, this lovable underachieving stuff gets old and tired...I don’t invest hours of my team to watch these teams year in and year out so that I can admire millionaires who hit the genetic lottery.  I want them to f*cking win, and that’s why I watch!  And when they lose to teams with “meanies” I don’t feel better because I don’t admire Rasheed Wallace as much as I do Luol Deng...I feel like crap because our nice guys had their “meanie” laugh in their faces and did nothing about it…

Sorry if that seems a bit harsh, but I DO NOT understand the complete and ubridled fascination with this Bulls team that is NOT going to win a championship the way it’s constructed....even the one guy on the team with a championship (Ben Wallace) even said so…

Jordan also made other players better then what they are.

Ed, please name one player that this is true for?

Madhouse, you one fire!  Much better put then I did.

Funkhouser - 05 November 2007 05:03 PM

Madhouse, you one fire!  Much better put then I did.

Funkhouser, thanks!  I just get so fired up because it’s like some people haven’t watched the last three years or last three games...they’re a jump shooting team...and right now...no one is afraid of them!

Madhouse52 - 05 November 2007 05:00 PM

Jordan also made other players better then what they are.

Ed, please name one player that this is true for?

Name 1?  Lets see.  Last time I checked, Jordan made a lot of money for Pippen, Horace Grant, Luc Longley, Steve Kerr, and Judd Buechler to name a few who all signed huge deals because of Jordan and the only one that actually managed to some what justify the signing was Steve Kerr.  None of those players amounted to a hill of beans after they left the Bulls.

Madhouse52 - 05 November 2007 05:08 PM

Funkhouser - 05 November 2007 05:03 PM

Madhouse, you one fire!  Much better put then I did.

Funkhouser, thanks!  I just get so fired up because it’s like some people haven’t watched the last three years or last three games...they’re a jump shooting team...and right now...no one is afraid of them!

I am not arguing that the Bulls need something.  However, I dont think Kobe is the answer.  I honestly believe that we will not go any further in the playoffs with him leading our team and if that is the case it is a wasted trade.  Granted right now, I cant come up with a feasible trade or a player that would fit well for what we want.

IlliniEd - 05 November 2007 05:48 PM

Madhouse52 - 05 November 2007 05:00 PM

Jordan also made other players better then what they are.

Ed, please name one player that this is true for?

Name 1?  Lets see.  Last time I checked, Jordan made a lot of money for Pippen, Horace Grant, Luc Longley, Steve Kerr, and Judd Buechler to name a few who all signed huge deals because of Jordan and the only one that actually managed to some what justify the signing was Steve Kerr.  None of those players amounted to a hill of beans after they left the Bulls.

Jordan made the most money for this fuckin douchebag- is there more of a freakin loser retard in professional sports other than this guy?

And say No to Kobe-- I don’t want him here-- you will lose more than you gain-- same with A-Gay

Jamel, you’re calling a guy who was married to Carmen Electra a “loser”? I don’t know about that one.

Madhouse52 - 05 November 2007 04:57 PM

What a crock of sh*t.  We f*cking cheered for Dennis Rodman (who we previously thought was a piece of crap)...and why???  Cause that son of a bitch could rebound his ass off, and made that team unstoppable on defense.  He could guard anyone in your front court regardless of size, and we forgave all of his sh*t because it meant three more rings! 

I don’t think I put words into other people’s mouths, I thought I wrote my own opinion.  If you want to sell your soul to see a bunch of guy’s you don’t know win, that’s fine.  I don’t have a problem with that.  I, for one, never cheered for Dennis Rodman or the Bulls once they acquired him.

Also, what does it say about people that they can think the guy is “a piece of crap”, but once he happens to put on a particular jersey the same people say, “Oh, never mind.  You can’t take what we say seriously.” Huh?  It makes them sound like a bunch of collective Mariotti’s, just being blown around by the wind.

This notion that I’d rather lose with a bunch of guys I can root for and admire is a large stinking load when it comes to professional sports! 

Thank you for telling me my own opinion.  I didn’t realize that I really couldn’t root for guys I admire and I need to be forced to root for people I would never invite into my home.

When Sammy Sosa was one of the game’s premiere players, he was one of the worst egomaniacal human beings on the face of the planet...but when he hit a fast ball 500 freakin feet, all of us were heart tapping and blowing kisses back at him! 

Again, not all of us.  Those of us who don’t worship lowlifes because they can run fast or throw hard did not.

Kobe and Jordan are damn near freakin identical...do you remember his gambling habits, his public (and referee organized) adultery, his degrading of teammates, his “NEVER” playing for anyone but Phil (until he played for Doug Collins and the Wizards)…

Never said I rooted for Jordan, either.

Sorry if that seems a bit harsh, but I DO NOT understand the complete and ubridled fascination with this Bulls team that is NOT going to win a championship the way it’s constructed....even the one guy on the team with a championship (Ben Wallace) even said so…

It’s simple, sports is entertainment, nothing more.  It doesn’t make anybody’s lives better except those directly involved.  If I can’t like the people I’m supposed to be entertained by, then it’s not doing a very good job of entertaining.  There are other venues that are more rewarding if the team you root for happens to be a bunch of lowlifes. 

I can’t understand otherwise good people who will excuse behavior they would never otherwise excuse just because some guy wears a certain uniform.  Such people don’t seem to have very deep roots, that’s for certain.  I could understand if people benefitted financially as a direct result of the sports team’s success.  Unfortunately, few people do.  And most of these athletes would not give a dollar to help the people who invest so much of their time rooting for them.  They’re more likely to be like Ricky Manning, Jr. and just beat you up and throw racial epithets at you. 

Sports can be fun, but I’m not going to be too upset if a bunch of guys who’d never acknowledge me don’t win.  It’s just entertainment to me.  I want to see decent guys be successful and I don’t like to see bad guys win no matter what jersey they happen to be wearing.  It makes no sense.  I may be a little upset if lowlifes like Iverson or Bryant do happen to win.

The war affects people personally.  The CTA trying to raise taxes on the suburbs because of their gross mismanagement affects people personally.  Terry Johnson shooting guns in neighborhoods affects people personally.  Ricky Manning beating up innocent bystanders affects people personally.  Michael Vick and his crime ring affects people personally.  Jay Mariotti and his drivel being in the paper every day affects people personally.  These are things I can understand people getting worked up about.  When the White Sox won, there weren’t any lowlifes that I’m aware of on that team.  Later it turned out Juan Uribe’s one and I can’t root for him anymore.  I can’t understand getting worked up about a bunch of millionaires winning when they’re no good lowlifes (like Kobe Bryant). 

When whiny millionaires like Carlos Zambrano rip working fans (who pay a ridiculous amount of money) for booing him ... why should I want to root for this guy or guys like him anymore?  He said something about “picking your brother up when he’s down”.  With these guys, sadly, it’s not a two-way street.  I couldn’t imagine under any circumstances Carlos Zambrano picking up one of the fans when they’re down.  When I do hear about one of these guys picking up the downtrodden, a Reggie White or a Mike Miller for example, these are guys I’m going to root for them regardless of what uniform they happen to wear.

Rick Morissey had a column on this very thing recently that was on the money.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-071030morrissey,1,5338315.column?coll=chi_sports_util