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Poll
Do you believe that Kobe Bryant will become a Chicago Bull before the end of this season?
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In Which Jay Filibusters for Kobe Bryant
Posted: 06 November 2007 08:31 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 46 ]  
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Saw it, liked it.

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Posted: 06 November 2007 08:55 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 47 ]  
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Another Kobe Bryant tantrum on the backpage?

Should I just copy & paste my last post?

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Posted: 06 November 2007 09:01 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 48 ]  
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tyrone briggs - 06 November 2007 08:55 AM

Another Kobe Bryant tantrum on the backpage?

Should I just copy & paste my last post?

Seriously… I thought today was going to be a column* on how great it is in the Boston area and how Chicago sucks balls

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Posted: 06 November 2007 09:36 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 49 ]  
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Jamel - 06 November 2007 09:01 AM

tyrone briggs - 06 November 2007 08:55 AM
Another Kobe Bryant tantrum on the backpage?

Should I just copy & paste my last post?

Seriously… I thought today was going to be a column* on how great it is in the Boston area and how Chicago sucks balls

Well, he did point out how much better the Celtics are now, so you were in the right city. He just doesn’t have your vision to see all the other great things Boston does. Of course, he is still not exactly sure where New England is or if it has a Queen. Also, I think you underestimated his lust for Kobe. He has moved past the blow up doll and gotten himself* an anatomically correct plushie.

Yeah, Tyrone, why not just post a page that contans threads to all his other Kobe rants and then the corresponding threads here?

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Posted: 06 November 2007 09:53 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 50 ]  
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Nah, I just put up a quick post about the Hawks and their quest to donate blood to the Red Cross.

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Posted: 06 November 2007 10:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 51 ]  
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So Angelus, I understand this notion that you don’t want to cheer for bad people and bad human beings, which begs my next question...why personally bother cheering at all?  I don’t for a minute believe that you haven’t cheered for or rooted for a team with what you describe as bad people on it.  The fact that we’re human means that we’re all flawed.  Athletes get their stuff publicized because of the public nature of their work.  I still don’t get what makes Kobe such a “bad person” that he can’t be on a team that you cheer for…

Selfishness?  Adultery?  Slightly immature at times? 

Hell, I bet we can find any number of people here at JTJ who have been guilty of any one or all of these at some point in their lives...but daily we come to JTJ, and we interact and we share, and for the most part we don’t judge.

Hell, just look at the names we come up with for Mariotti...and some of the statements we make about his personal and hypothetical sex life that we would be embarrased to say to our mothers...it’s one thing to denigrate his writing, point out his journalistic flaws, identify perceived hidden homoeroticism, and even question his character and moral compass, but sometimes the attacks become so intensely personal and nasty, that I’m embarassed and disgusted to read them...and I run a daily contest featuring naked women. 

This forum is chocked full of passionate sports fans who want to see their team win, not who are mildly entertained.  No one is saying that the pain of losing or the elation of winning is life critical, or that it lasts forever, because it doesn’t.  But one’s team winning is meaningful for a moment, or maybe (in the case of the 1985 Bears) for a lifetime.  It certainly helps unite people in ways that other forms of entertainment don’t...the common bond here isn’t our disdain for Jay Mariotti as a person, it’s our disdain for him because of the way he treats the teams that we follow and love. 

I’m confused because it’s easy to say, “I don’t root for bad guys” whom by and large we don’t know.  You joined a sports forum (not a music, or movie, or musical, or theater forum), which suggests to me that this is more than just a passing interest to you.  It’s easy to say that I didn’t cheer for the Bulls once they acquired Dennis Rodman, or that you didn’t cheer for Jordan, but what about before then or after then?  Because if you EVER cheered for any professional sports team, I guarantee you can find “bad guys” on it…

Tank Johnson, Ricky Manning, and Michael Vick did bad things...they may even be bad people...certainly they’ve lacked some moral decency and direction...but, if you judge whether you can cheer for a team based on the moral fiber of it’s players, then you cannot cheer for professional sports franchises, college sports teams, or even high school for that matter (some of my teammates were the biggest racists and womanizers I knew).  And, it is a contradiction in terms to say that you can cheer for the collective and not its parts, for it’s the parts that make the collective succesful. 

I imagine that when you go and see a movie, you don’t do background checks on the actors before you go and watch, and then only watch movies with “good people”.  However, if you know a “great actor” is in a certain movie, you’ll go and see it even if that actor has a checkered past. 

Jay Mariotti and his drivel being in the paper every day affects people personally.

This really effects me the least as a part of my entertainment day or week.  See, I don’t have to read his work, and for the most part, I’ve stopped.  But, as a fan of the Bulls, Bears, and Cubs (and sometimes White Sox), I watch because I’m a fan, and I want them to win.  If it didn’t matter to me, then I surely wouldn’t waste my time watching, nor spend my day on a forum discussing it with other fans…

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Posted: 06 November 2007 11:03 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 52 ]  
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IlliniEd - 05 November 2007 05:48 PM

Madhouse52 - 05 November 2007 05:00 PM
Jordan also made other players better then what they are.

Ed, please name one player that this is true for?

Name 1?  Lets see.  Last time I checked, Jordan made a lot of money for Pippen, Horace Grant, Luc Longley, Steve Kerr, and Judd Buechler to name a few who all signed huge deals because of Jordan and the only one that actually managed to some what justify the signing was Steve Kerr.  None of those players amounted to a hill of beans after they left the Bulls.

What does them making money have to do with Jordan making them “better players”?  Do you know how many over-paid busters there are in the NBA today? 

P.S. - Horace Grant helped the Lakers win a title without Jordan, Pippen led that Portland team to game 7 of the Western Conference Finals without Jordan...while Jordan never made the playoffs in Washington (you know...where he was making all of those players better)...and remember this...it was Krumbs Krause who signed all of those guys to big contracts, and then traded them to other teams for no-names and expiring contracts, and then couldn’t freakin’ give his money away because the collective bargaining agreement changed and made it easier to get “max deals” from your team or force sign and trades to other cities (ala Tracy McGrady to Orlando)...problem was, Krause gave away any tradeable talent for busters and had nothing to “sign and trade”.

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Posted: 06 November 2007 11:11 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 53 ]  
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Madhouse52 - 06 November 2007 11:03 AM

IlliniEd - 05 November 2007 05:48 PM
Madhouse52 - 05 November 2007 05:00 PM
Jordan also made other players better then what they are.

Ed, please name one player that this is true for?

Name 1?  Lets see.  Last time I checked, Jordan made a lot of money for Pippen, Horace Grant, Luc Longley, Steve Kerr, and Judd Buechler to name a few who all signed huge deals because of Jordan and the only one that actually managed to some what justify the signing was Steve Kerr.  None of those players amounted to a hill of beans after they left the Bulls.

What does them making money have to do with Jordan making them “better players”?  Do you know how many over-paid busters there are in the NBA today? 

P.S. - Horace Grant helped the Lakers win a title without Jordan, Pippen led that Portland team to game 7 of the Western Conference Finals without Jordan...while Jordan never made the playoffs in Washington (you know...where he was making all of those players better)...and remember this...it was Krumbs Krause who signed all of those guys to big contracts, and then traded them to other teams for no-names and expiring contracts, and then couldn’t freakin’ give his money away because the collective bargaining agreement changed and made it easier to get “max deals” from your team or force sign and trades to other cities (ala Tracy McGrady to Orlando)...problem was, Krause gave away any tradeable talent for busters and had nothing to “sign and trade”.

What about this douchebag? Without Jordan there wouldn’t have been douchebag
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Posted: 06 November 2007 11:12 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 54 ]  
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Madhouse52 - 06 November 2007 11:03 AM

IlliniEd - 05 November 2007 05:48 PM
Madhouse52 - 05 November 2007 05:00 PM
Jordan also made other players better then what they are.

Ed, please name one player that this is true for?

Name 1?  Lets see.  Last time I checked, Jordan made a lot of money for Pippen, Horace Grant, Luc Longley, Steve Kerr, and Judd Buechler to name a few who all signed huge deals because of Jordan and the only one that actually managed to some what justify the signing was Steve Kerr.  None of those players amounted to a hill of beans after they left the Bulls.

What does them making money have to do with Jordan making them “better players”?  Do you know how many over-paid busters there are in the NBA today? 

P.S. - Horace Grant helped the Lakers win a title without Jordan, Pippen led that Portland team to game 7 of the Western Conference Finals without Jordan...while Jordan never made the playoffs in Washington (you know...where he was making all of those players better)...and remember this...it was Krumbs Krause who signed all of those guys to big contracts, and then traded them to other teams for no-names and expiring contracts, and then couldn’t freakin’ give his money away because the collective bargaining agreement changed and made it easier to get “max deals” from your team or force sign and trades to other cities (ala Tracy McGrady to Orlando)...problem was, Krause gave away any tradeable talent for busters and had nothing to “sign and trade”.

How do you determine value?  Value is based off of performance.  None of those players that were traded where any better then they were with Jordan not even Pippen.  Pippen didnt lead the team.  That was Wallace and Pejas team.  That and Vlads team.  Always forget about the dopey white guy.  Pippen was not the player that he was when he played with Jordan.  You are confusing being on a team with being a major contributor.  With regards to the entire Jordan Wizards debacle, Jordan was 40 at the time and wasnt nearly the player he was even just 3 years before. 

And your right, Kraus should have gotten more in the sign and trades.  He didnt.  No one wanted his money and we had nothing to give up in sign and trades.

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Posted: 06 November 2007 11:23 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 55 ]  
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I’m dealing purely with Jordan making players better...that’s one of the gripes...Jordan made them better...and the question from me is “better than whom”?  They were the same players when they left Chicago...no better...no worse...only Grant and Kerr have a ring outside of Chicago.  I’m saying judge Kobe on his individual merit, and what his talent allows others on the floor with him to do…

That’s the problem with the Bulls now...no one person has enough talent to make the game easier for the rest of the team...that is a proven formula of success in the NBA...the problem is no one want Kobe, but he is who is available right now...at some point Paxson is going to be remembered for the deals he couldn’t make....

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Posted: 06 November 2007 11:29 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 56 ]  
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Are you trying to say then that no one player actually makes people better?  That Steve Nash doesnt make the sum of his parts better then what it really is?  When the guys left the Bulls, they werent as good.  With the exception of Kerr.  Pippen was a shell of who he once was.  Rodman was a crazy guy that wasnt nearly as good defensively.  None of the others did anything after they left the Bulls.  Most of them were out of the league within a few years.  And we arent talking fringe players here.  We are talking guys that got serious minutes. 

And why do you keep saying that we think that the team as constituted can win?  Most of us have said that it cant.  They will be what they are.  Most of us have issues with trading for Kobe, not trading in general.  Personally, I dont think Pau Gasol is really any good.  I would have loved to have had Garnett.  That didnt happen.  And it wasnt Paxs fault on that one.  McHale didnt make the deal.

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Posted: 06 November 2007 11:35 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 57 ]  
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Of course Jordan made other players better- like this douchebag-- why is everyone ignoring me?
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Posted: 06 November 2007 11:39 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 58 ]  
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Because he was actually good before he got to the Bulls.  Jordan just managed to keep him in check by fear of beating hte snot out of him.

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Posted: 06 November 2007 11:41 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 59 ]  
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I’ll take Dennis Rodman in his prime over 99% of the “defensive” plaers around today. He may have been a nut job, but not even Shaq got over on him.

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Posted: 06 November 2007 11:48 AM   [ Ignore ]   [ # 60 ]  
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IlliniEd - 06 November 2007 11:29 AM

Are you trying to say then that no one player actually makes people better?  That Steve Nash doesnt make the sum of his parts better then what it really is?  When the guys left the Bulls, they werent as good.  With the exception of Kerr.  Pippen was a shell of who he once was.  Rodman was a crazy guy that wasnt nearly as good defensively.  None of the others did anything after they left the Bulls.  Most of them were out of the league within a few years.  And we arent talking fringe players here.  We are talking guys that got serious minutes. 

And why do you keep saying that we think that the team as constituted can win?  Most of us have said that it cant.  They will be what they are.  Most of us have issues with trading for Kobe, not trading in general.  Personally, I dont think Pau Gasol is really any good.  I would have loved to have had Garnett.  That didnt happen.  And it wasnt Paxs fault on that one.  McHale didnt make the deal.

Most of them were out of the league because they aged.  That’s one of the reasons Krause looked to “rebuild”...the team was getting older, and he was afraid of them becoming the Celtics (which they did anyway, but were young and bad, and not old and bad)…

All of these teams were “someone’s team” Jordan and Pippen’s Team, Shaq and Kobe’s team, Olajuwon and Drexler’s team, Robinson and Duncan’s team, Duncan and Parker’s team, Shaq and Kobe’s team, Wallace and Wallace’s team…

Most people get the big 3, we get the little 3 that could...Hinrich, Gordon, and Deng’s team…

I’m not saying that you believe that this team can win it all...I get that...I just don’t get not taking a chance if you believe this isn’t THE TEAM. 

Steve Nash makes the game easier for the sum of his parts...plus he’s a two-time MVP who can get to the hole and create his own shot at will...but remember, Phoenix was a good team before he got there.  He makes them better...the Bulls are a good team...All-star talent makes them better…

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